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US Journalists Sentenced To 12 Years In North Korea

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Laura Ling, Euna Lee, US Journalists, Sentenced To 12 Years In North Korea

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea convicted two American journalists and sentenced them Monday to 12 years of hard labor for crossing into its territory, intensifying the reclusive nation's confrontation with the United States.

The Obama administration said it would pursue "all possible channels" to win the release of Laura Ling and Euna Lee, reporters for former Vice President Al Gore's San Francisco-based Current TV media venture.

There are fears Pyongyang is using the women as bargaining chips as the U.N. debates a new resolution to punish the country for its defiant May 25 atomic test and as North Korea seeks to draw Washington into direct negotiations.

The journalists were found guilty of committing a "grave crime" against North Korea and of illegally entering the country, North Korea's state-run Korean Central News Agency said.

North Korean guards arrested Ling and Lee near the China-North Korean border on March 17. The two were reporting about the trafficking of North Korean women at the time of their arrest, and it's unclear if they strayed into the North or were grabbed by aggressive border guards who crossed into China. A cameraman and their local guide escaped.

okay, where is John McSame now? Shouldn't be be singing bomb bomb bomb bomb N Korea?


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:picknose:

I thought we didn't attack North Korea yet because the previous president was looking for it in the middle east.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if McCain tried to pull something...


"Cool. I always knew Atheists would someday save The World."

- Fantomex

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We just don't waste money and time putting on a show with farce trails. The justice system has more important things to do like lawsuits by people for their own misfortunes like being fat for eating fast food or having some time of cancer when the product they abused clearly states that as the result.


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if they did in fact illegally cross the border, then i don't like to say it but N.Korea has every right to punish them according to their own laws,

but with north Korea, you never know what they will pull


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North Korea are well within their rights here, but fortunately for those journalists this has become a politically charged situation. It no longer matters whether they were right or wrong; what matters is that they are American, and as a nation it is in our interest to bully them free.

It's nice to be a superpower, sometimes. :)


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i think north korea is always looking for an excuse to press the red button, thats why everyone tippy toes with them


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Bruce Campbell: '' This place has more security then the Batcave ''

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what matters is that they are American, and as a nation it is in our interest to bully them free.

:goodjob: rite on!

2 different stories, they say they were still in China when they got grabbed. I'll side with hometown over the away team. NK has been looking for leverage for years, they think they have it now. By our standards 12 yrs hard labor for non violent crime is cruel and unusual punishment thus we have to do something to bring these women home.


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Playing devils advocate here, but Guantanamo kinda trumps this case, yet this gets on the cover of international news papers

i dont think you can bully NK. they want a reason to look like a victim even if it is for a day


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NORTH KOREA'S PRICE FOR CONCESSIONS ON NUKES AND KIDNAPPED JOURNALISTS MAY BE EXORBITANT

By Donald Kirk, Asia Times

Will millions of tons of food aid with no strings attached

allow for the release of U.S. prisoners and open the door to

nuclear talks?

http://www.alternet.org/world/140553/north_korea%27s_price_for_concessions_on_nukes_and_kidnapped_journalists_may_be_exorbitant/


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Clinton Gore w00t!!!!

[ame=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#32291541]Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann[/ame]


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laura ling says they crossed the border illegally. i didn't like how media tried to portray them as kidnapped victims, including Hilary insulting them without facts. good thing that it didn't escalate to something worse though.

there's still 4 american "hostages" in iran and afgahnistan, for their disregard and lack of respect for foreign laws that they are in prison.


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I like the fact they were released, but damn what do these people expect will happen to them when they expect will happen to them when they put themselves into these situations?


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Maybe N Korea should spend money on food instead of nukes. I think that picture I posted earlier says it all. I have no sympathy for that country.


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(40%) 8 million starving NK population in 2008 due to famine

(10%) 35 million starving US population in 2007 due to greed

nukes are repellent against the US and neighboring nations so it is necessary


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Lobbing missiles into the ocean in the direction of the Japanese... Its no secret that they want to take N Korea by surprise.

Greed is right. People starve in the US because they choose to. We have many programs to help people like this. Half of them shouldn't even exist because of they are taken advantage of. The guy on the street with a sign wants beer, not food. I don't feel sorry for people like that. Granted there are a few unfortunate souls, most of them just don't want to help themselves... they're just looking for a free handout.


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hey, that reminds me of pre-emptive strike against iraq. you know how silly those americans were when they thought iraq was secretly planning to destroy america? or was it the free handouts to iraqis that we went to war for? i'll take warning shots over unplanned invasion anyday.

i don't read people's mind but no people don't stay that way because they want to. half of those numbers are children. that's just wrong to assume like that. you don't know their circumstances, neither do i. i guess increasing numbers of homeless veterans are myths too.


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hey, that reminds me of pre-emptive strike against iraq. you know how silly those americans were when they thought iraq was secretly planning to destroy america? or was it the free handouts to iraqis that we went to war for? i'll take warning shots over unplanned invasion anyday.

Yeah, we're such a evil and sadistic nation, why does anyone live here anyways? But its actually OK for N Korea to pre-emptive strike a peaceful nation that has little military power of its own? "Warning" shots for what? The Resurrection of the Empire? Or is that "twisting your words?" :P

Sadaam never vowed revenge on America, never kicked out the UN inspectors, and never violated the terms of defeat from the Gulf War. Thats mythical too. An unjust war, doesn't change the fact that he had bad intentions. Whether he ever would have had the means to act upon them is another story.

I don't have to read peoples minds because where I live, I see that people choose stay that way, and don't really care to better themselves. I actually live amongst them. When you put a statistic on people they become a faceless numerical value in which all are equal losing all individuality. I have family and know people that works for these programs. Like I said, they're are a few unfortunate souls, but the majority of them are leeches, and raise their children to be the same way. In fact these people are responsible for the number of children in this category because they keep having them even though they cannot afford them and expect the government to take the bill.

Just think about this, There are homeless people in D.C. that are more wealthy than you and I. They have no problem living this way because people just hand them money every day and they don't have to pay the government or state any taxes.... an extreme and unordinary example of a small percentile but 100% true.


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Yeah, if Saddam was such a vengeful and evil man as you believed, you would have been in Iraq to make sure he doesn't take revenge on America. Were you lazy on that one to sign up for an imminent danger to save America and remove Saddam and look for that imaginary WMD for years to come? :P

Warning shots against the US and neighboring countries to stay away like I already mentioned, and it was a logical direction to fire at. Just look at the surroundings of Korean peninsula and you would understand. If the US didn't believe the resurrection of Japanese Empire, they would have been long gone and let Japan defend itself. Btw Bush threatened "3 axis of evil - NK, Iraq, and Iran" and then Iraq was actually burned for it. How is that any different from Saddam's empty threat for a change? The US' out of the blue sky threats were much crazy and dangerous actually.

The US chooses not to feed its starving population by not cutting the military spendings and won't give up doing the world police which everyone is sick and tired of for so long. What are you afraid that Mexico and Canada will invade us? But NK in Korean peninsula reeked with foreign invasions for centuries has to strengthen its defense just to keep it up with technology and it can't do both while feeding every poor. The US should get its priority back soon and mind its own business or another pissed off foreigners will blow something up like it did in 9/11. But I would be more worried about domestic terrorists like Timothy McVeigh than foreign terrorists that the US is creating everyday while dropping bombs on some innocent village.

And I never believed personal experience as a fact. It's just a poor argument for the such a huge (population wise) and complicated issue. During Ike, some old folks down here at one of facilities couldn't get out because they had no electricity meaning no elevators to move them to safety. They weren't lazy. It was physically impossible for them. I knew this because one woman was calling the radio station begging to help them out but no one could nor care to do anything and I'm practically not sure what happened to them. Saying government programs can help sufficiently but realizing how incompetent it was when the Katrina hit New Orleans, shoving everyone into the dome and hope for the best? People have different thinking and experiences. People might miss their old material things and drink years before it straightens them out that they need to get back on their feet. People born poor, or homeless, with no food, no opportunities, mentally handicapped, or physically handicapped, they end up doing crime and go to jail and then come out and no one wants him/her to work for them so they do more crime, even prostitution starts at age 13 in the US. And I can go on for million different directions but it'll never be that most poor majority wants stay that way unless you met every single one of them.


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Oh yeah, A junior in high school signing up for the military... that would have worked... I state an actual fact and you proclaim to know what I believe? :P I mean he was a goody two shoes, him and his sons were kinder than Santa Claus to his people. He only wanted to take over the entire middle east and all... Genocide against the Kurds? no biggie.

Those who do not learn from history are only doomed to repeat it. No one thought Hitler would take over all of Europe and half of Russia. As he slowly and gradually pushed the envelope and broke the rules, everyone just sat with an attitude just like that. He did speech after speech about his future conquest. Over 6 million innocent people were sent to their deaths, not counting the millions of lives lost in the actual war.

Btw US stays in Japan for our own personal gain. Much like our many other over seas locations we've staked claim to forcefully or not. Strategic advantage for our World Policing ya know? Don't want to give up the upper hand.

And I can go on for million different directions but it'll never be that most poor majority wants stay that way unless you met every single one of them.
I see, so you have met every single one of them and know that it will never be eh? The majority of people that were "stuck" in New Orleans, chose to stay there. The buses left and they had to get in the dome because even more would have died if they hadn't. The entirety of my dad's side of the family lives in New Orleans. I go there regularly and actually know what the population it like. Yeah, Old and sick people get stuck. But anyways, I think I was speaking of government programs to help the poor and homeless, not disaster victims. That's a bit different. New Orleans is recovering just fine from one of the worst recorded natural disasters in history. Along with the gulf coast of Mississippi which actually got hit worse than New Orleans.

I've lived in 5 different states and spent a good bit of time in 3 others. The same guys that have been standing on the interstate exits with signs over the past 8 years, the homeless guy that sits outside the place where I work, the woman that has a kid every year to feed off WIC... these are just a minute part of a massive list of people I've seen or see every day. I'll take personal experience over selectively believing what media outlets say. Statistics can be made to say anything you want them to say, and if you've ever participated in a government or political poll you'd know pretty well how they are structured.

The media covers what they want too. Thats how we get our stereotypes. Reality is so much different. Believe it or not, most people in the south have all of their teeth, go to college, and don't live on farms. They don't have a heavy southern accent either. However, most people outside the south watches the TV and sees the toothless guy in overalls being interviewed. Mississippi is really the only state you'll find a large group of people like that. The same goes for all aspects and topics. Yes our media downs N Korea and Iran. I'm sure their media has plenty good to say about us. What do you really expect?

Lastly, according to your percentages almost half the population of N Korea is starving. 10% of ours is... now we should cut our spending, but they shouldn't? hmmmm. Land is just land, but people make up a nation. Thats why you build diplomacy and friendships with powerful nations. A nuke is not a defensive weapon. Oh... and Mexico is invading us for the record X'D

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Now now DX, don't confuse yourself with Bush's Mission Accomplished with removing Saddam since we took 3 years to capture Saddam. You couldn't have stuck in High School as a Junior for that long. We were there for more than 8 years looking for that bugger WMD and there were plenty of times for you to join in. But don't worry. The Middle East still isn't safe from evil boogie men, just not yet. Who's our next big boogiman this time? Bingo! Mahmoud Ahmadinejad! :P

But please spare me the Hitler argument. Your lousy fact about comparing Saddam to Hitler is a joke. For someone who doesn't have sympathy for the poor sure does worry about the war casualties. What if they were lazy to defend themselves in the first place lol. What do you think starvation do to people in the first place? It kills them. It makes them suffer. There's no difference. 32 million of 10% by choice with millions of immigration every year with rising poverty, compare to 8 million of 40% by famine? It sure beats 6 million European Jews either way. But this isn't a competition of who died and suffered more. Somehow those 32 million Americans are replaceable to you but oppressed Iraqis who had nothing to do with 9/11 are dispersed by millions by the US force is not? What about 2 million Sudanese Christians who were oppressed and massacred? Don't you care about war causalities or are you selective depending on who dies? Most of Iraqis didn't even have enough money to get out of the Iraq so they stayed. I'm sure they are really grateful for that. The US is capable of cutting the spending and feed its own people. Government programs aren't perfect and sufficient and neither does FEMA. That's how they run things and it's done poorly. Just saying programs exist doesn't make every poor/victims lazy.

Yes, you have to meet every single one of them to generalize. I haven't generalized the poor here. You did. You stereotype the poor yet you blame the media for sterotyping? If I said Americans I met are buttholes based on my own experience alone, that would make it true? Far from it. But France is the rudest in polls/statistics what have you. Their government even told French people to smile more. Now if someone went to France and said they are the most wonderful people in the world, I won't give a shit what he thinks, UNLESS he met every single one of them to stereotype them like that. O_O If you so much like experience as facts, here is mine. I stayed during Ike because I was afraid of robbery (my next door neighbor was almost robbed if it wasn't for their alarm. their fence blew off so we had to call them to fix it). Am I being lazy for avoiding evacuation? Consider what happened, it was actually a smart move and very lucky that little damage was done to the house. Thank goodness we didn't have a levy around, something I couldn't have controlled the situtation anyway. One man on tv was interviewed said he was staying because he lost his wife during previous hurricane and he thought it was his obligation to stay. Why? I don't know. But was he lazy for that? Hell no. Again, you are pinning everyone to be lazy because they didn't get on the bus. Different circumstances for different people. Why is it hard for you to grasp that?

I watched a document about NKoreans are forced to turn off the lights at night because they smuggle video from SK to watch news and dramas. Those lights don't mean jack to me. Not that matters since it's a satellite view. So what. It's their country and they can run however they want to. Shocking aint it? If you say about history repeats itself, Chosun(Korea) shut itself from others due to that very reason for so many foreign invasions had occurred. That's when the US and Japan forced Korea to trade and later Japan took over with the help of the US. Reminds you that KJI was born under Japanese occupation, learning bullshits what the foreign countries had done to them. Why should KJI take Bush's threats any less seriously? Yea, I know. The US looks for it's own interest and that's why no one will give sympathy to the US if another 9/11 happens. Democracy is not for everyone and doesn't work for everyone. The US doesn't attack nations with nukes. There's too much risk to it. Alliances come and go. Allying with powerful nations don't mean jack if they attempt to make you a lap dog like Iraq. That's worse than war itself.

I'd make the middle east the largest glass structure on the face of the planet. 90% of international issues would end immediately.

Land is just land with people in it.


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But please spare me the Hitler argument. Your lousy fact about comparing Saddam to Hitler is a joke.

Seeing as I spent many years studying Nazi Germany, and the simple fact that the Ba'ath party was based off Nazi Ideologies and Structure.. I'd say Its a pretty good comparison. Do you know how Iraq came into existence and why its always been as fucked up as it been? Or the entire middle east for that matter? Trust me, you wont find an adequate explanation on Wikipedia.

I care about war casualties? What made you think that? War is war, People die. Collateral damage is a fact of life, and yet people get their panties in a wad because the US "dropped a bomb on an innocent village". So? Its war, it happens. Yeah its terrible, but the weak stomached society we have today, its as if we should drop the cause all together because some civilians died as if that's never happened in any war before in all of history. What happens when this cause is truely important?

Of course the numbers are different when it comes to the suffering because of the sizes of population, but a lost 10% of the population, its no where near as devastating as losing 40% of your population. That's the point I was trying to make. And overthrowing a government and occupying a country is not the same as diplomacy with nations seeking partnership. Bad comparison.

The majority of people that were "stuck" in New Orleans, chose to stay there. The buses left and they had to get in the dome because even more would have died if they hadn't. The entirety of my dad's side of the family lives in New Orleans. I go there regularly and actually know what the population it like. Yeah, Old and sick people get stuck. But anyways, I think I was speaking of government programs to help the poor and homeless, not disaster victims. That's a bit different. New Orleans is recovering just fine from one of the worst recorded natural disasters in history. Along with the gulf coast of Mississippi which actually got hit worse than New Orleans.

Hmmm, I just re-read this and I fail to see where I said anyone was lazy... I did say they chose to stay... but nothing about being lazy. You wonder why I can't apparently grasp some concept based of something you've made up that I've said? I've pinned most as making a choice. Which they did, like you did. The difference is they blamed everyone but themselves over the risk they took.

So to make a generalization, you have to meet every one of them? Well then I guess we can toss all those stats out the door, and anything that anyone has ever said about the poor and homeless. What you said, What I said, and any informative article every written because obviously no one has never met every single one of them. fancy that eh?

Yeah, I still stand by my glass structure statement. That isn't the first time I posted that statement ;)

That's really all I have to say about the topic. You can think I said this and that all you wish. I'm not speaking in parables, everything is meant for literal interpretation.


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1. You don't need a masters degree in History or years of study in History to compare almost anything with Nazi. It's a child's game, a broken silly argument. Using words like Nazi and Hitler is like using words communism and Czar to anyone current some radicals are throwing at to those that they don't agree with. It's just that irrelevant. Top of my head, I can say a few things the US was Nazi like during pre and post WW2 or today. Even the US had influenced Nazi. Toss a coin or throw a wet paper into the wall and it'll bound up arguing about how much so and so is like Hitler regardless.

2.

I care about war casualties? What made you think that? War is war, People die. Collateral damage is a fact of life, and yet people get their panties in a wad because the US "dropped a bomb on an innocent village". So? Its war, it happens.

This:

You were saying the bottom quote wanting to compare how evil Saddam was and must be removed. If you didn't care, you would not have mentioned innocent lives being massacred under Hitler.

Over 6 million innocent people were sent to their deaths, not counting the millions of lives lost in the actual war.

3.

And overthrowing a government and occupying a country is not the same as diplomacy with nations seeking partnership. Bad comparison.

Uhh we do have diplomacy and partnership with Iraq. Overthrowing was part of it. Allying with powerful nations don't guarantee protection.

4.

Hmmm, I just re-read this and I fail to see where I said anyone was lazy... I did say they chose to stay... but nothing about being lazy. You wonder why I can't apparently grasp some concept based of something you've made up that I've said?

Fine. You called them leaches. You don't have to be picky on words as if I commit something terrible. But if you truly believe your words were literal in your argument, you should've realized that you did generalized them regardless. It didn't take away anything away from my argument anyway so I don't see the point deciding to nitpick now instead of before. If you have a better diction than the word lazy, by all means

but as for now, "Most of them just don't want to help themselves... they're just looking for a free handout" = Lazy

5.

So to make a generalization, you have to meet every one of them? Well then I guess we can toss all those stats out the door, and anything that anyone has ever said about the poor and homeless. What you said, What I said, and any informative article every written because obviously no one has never met every single one of them. fancy that eh?"

That doesn't even make sense. There was no generalization on my part, neither did those stats. You can't generalize individuals with different circumstances. That's simply impossible. Those numbers didn't say they were prostitutes, opportunists, or "who don't care to better themselves." You loped the group of people and said majority of them were leeches.

6.

Yeah, I still stand by my glass structure statement. That isn't the first time I posted that statement ;)

Hitler? No, no gotta be Santa Claus.


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